Yeah, I loved Kingsmen absolutely until the third act. It was so good before that point that the nosedive direction it took was so jarring. Looking back, despite greatly enjoying the rest of the film entirely, the final stretch is all I can think about and it ruins it for me. Such a shame, because I want to love it more.
I'm all for equality and I have no problems with that last scene. Even here on youtube we have feminists and sexologists like Laci Green andDr. Lindsey Doe who talk about equality and enjoying sex in the same sentence, yes even anal sex.
Women can have sex and they can also enjoy from it.
The princess wanted consensual sex, she was the one who asked for it, this itself is a complete reversal of Bond films where Bond forces himself on women. This scene doesn't just makes fun of Bond, it makes Bond look terrible and is actually a win for equality.
For a movie that was, all the way thru an extreme/campy version of Bond by design, the scene with the princess was on the nose, made sense and appropriate. How often did Bond nail the "damsel in distress"? More than once? so often it became a signature of the franchise? Then this scene was completely in keeping with the movie they were trying to make and i find Adams, Norms and Wills condemnation of it supremely hypocritical and revisionist of the Bond history. I do agree tho that Lancelot should have been more central to the end.
I think I've got a good rule for the problem of women who are built up as competent but then suddenly aren't because of a "serious obstacle":
Let's call it The Indiana Jones Test. (I think this could work quite well since Adam is a fan of Indy and this is a test for him.)
One of the great things about Indiana Jones is that he's a badass but not flawless – he's not big on snakes. So the test is simple – we swap the character for Indy and change the obstacle to snakes.
Do we find the level and duration of their incompetence believable if its Indy? Then the writers pass.
I'm not saying there can't be reasons for a strong character to lose their strength, but you have to justify it, and I think Indy provides a good starting point for when that justification is really necessary.
I don't think the scene with the Princess was as bad as Adam made it out to be. Eggsy was going to release her from the cell anyway it wasn't a condition of her release that she must offer up that act as payment.
+Tested Adam, i cant believe im saying this but grow up man. You're trying way to hard to make some kind of bullshit feminist statement about the last scene of the film? Although you have now problem with a man slaughtering a church full of people but you gut up in arms over a joke about anal sex? How old are you again? Hey, if it hurts your eyes so damn much well they edited and took out the scene in most copies i have seen of it.
You know, disagreement on the Princess gag aside… I'm actually surprised that Adam and Will thought that one of the rules of the movie was "Anyone can die"
The SECOND the Church scene kicked off, I knew Galahad was a dead man. Racists or not, writers never have a hero slaughter a ton of innocent people and live. I was actually surprised he made it out of the church, but the bullet to the head didn't even make me blink. He had to die. He'd accomplished his task as a character… he'd mentored the up and coming agent, then provided his young protege with the emotional impulse to step beyond his limits. It was a Ben Kenobi moment, only better done.
The bit with Lancelot later on, where she was assigned to take out the satellite despite her fear of heights was similarly unsurprising and neccesary. First, they'd foreshadowed it by showing she was scared of heights, that way her actions had personal drama, but more to the point she had to do that part of the mission because the invitation into the shelter was in Arthur's name and a girl would have raised eyebrows even if security didn't have pictures to put with the names.
yet again more made up sexism controversy from adam. i think he needs to rewatch the end of kingsman, the female character wasn't hesitant or bumbling in the slightest in the third act. she only hesitates to jump out of the plane in the middle, and eggs freaks out later in that scene way more than she ever does, it makes their character more relatable
shes ever so slightly (and understandably) out of breath in the scene where the balloon pops as shes about to fire and has to aim while falling. but adam is trying to make out like she turns into a 20's house wife burning the roast dinner or something.
is this how its going to be now. one generation had their elders being inadvertently racists/sexist/prejudice, now we're going to have people trying to be a social justice warrior because they don't remember things how they actually happen?!
do't even get me started on him not realising all the james bond movies he loves so much had just as "bad" endings where the hero has sex with random women. norm brings up the point and adam just shakes his head. "you're going to take a woman whos already imprisons and have anal sex with her. This is the worst joke i've ever heard". thats because that wasnt the joke, the joke was the cheeky lad thinks hes going to get a kiss from a princess and turns out, ooo, this princess isn't such a delicate little flower and is the one who shocks eggs by bring up anal sex. subverting your expectations of what a "princess" would say. the characters shock is the joke. Adam was too busy making him self offended to get it.
This week, on Still Untitled we discuss the new Battlebots and Kingsman: The Secret Service
I am in the Norm Camp.
I love the fact that Adam is just using a ejector seat for the whole video
Yeah, I loved Kingsmen absolutely until the third act. It was so good before that point that the nosedive direction it took was so jarring. Looking back, despite greatly enjoying the rest of the film entirely, the final stretch is all I can think about and it ruins it for me. Such a shame, because I want to love it more.
I'm all for equality and I have no problems with that last scene. Even here on youtube we have feminists and sexologists like Laci Green andDr. Lindsey Doe who talk about equality and enjoying sex in the same sentence, yes even anal sex.
Women can have sex and they can also enjoy from it.
The princess wanted consensual sex, she was the one who asked for it, this itself is a complete reversal of Bond films where Bond forces himself on women. This scene doesn't just makes fun of Bond, it makes Bond look terrible and is actually a win for equality.
"Problematic..". Oh Adam…
For a movie that was, all the way thru an extreme/campy version of Bond by design, the scene with the princess was on the nose, made sense and appropriate. How often did Bond nail the "damsel in distress"? More than once? so often it became a signature of the franchise? Then this scene was completely in keeping with the movie they were trying to make and i find Adams, Norms and Wills condemnation of it supremely hypocritical and revisionist of the Bond history. I do agree tho that Lancelot should have been more central to the end.
We want blendo footage. Dig out the VHS and convert/upload it!
is battlebots gonna be online on demand too? i dont own a TV, and i live in denmark.
I think I've got a good rule for the problem of women who are built up as competent but then suddenly aren't because of a "serious obstacle":
Let's call it The Indiana Jones Test. (I think this could work quite well since Adam is a fan of Indy and this is a test for him.)
One of the great things about Indiana Jones is that he's a badass but not flawless – he's not big on snakes. So the test is simple – we swap the character for Indy and change the obstacle to snakes.
Do we find the level and duration of their incompetence believable if its Indy? Then the writers pass.
I'm not saying there can't be reasons for a strong character to lose their strength, but you have to justify it, and I think Indy provides a good starting point for when that justification is really necessary.
So i'm the only one who doesn't care about crude jokes?
I don't think the scene with the Princess was as bad as Adam made it out to be. Eggsy was going to release her from the cell anyway it wasn't a condition of her release that she must offer up that act as payment.
the new battlebots should have jamie controlling blendo als a super challenge for those not afraid to see their bot die
Eggsy killed Arthur who had an invitation for a man so it made perfect sense that he went to the lair and Roxy went up in the ballon.
SPOILER TO KINGSMEN
I had no idea about the anal sex joke. When I saw the film the line was ADR'd for "If you get me out right now, I'll give you a lot more than a kiss".
+Tested Adam, i cant believe im saying this but grow up man. You're trying way to hard to make some kind of bullshit feminist statement about the last scene of the film? Although you have now problem with a man slaughtering a church full of people but you gut up in arms over a joke about anal sex? How old are you again? Hey, if it hurts your eyes so damn much well they edited and took out the scene in most copies i have seen of it.
You guys realize Kingsman is based on a comic book hence the crazy super hero moves.
You know, disagreement on the Princess gag aside… I'm actually surprised that Adam and Will thought that one of the rules of the movie was "Anyone can die"
The SECOND the Church scene kicked off, I knew Galahad was a dead man. Racists or not, writers never have a hero slaughter a ton of innocent people and live. I was actually surprised he made it out of the church, but the bullet to the head didn't even make me blink. He had to die. He'd accomplished his task as a character… he'd mentored the up and coming agent, then provided his young protege with the emotional impulse to step beyond his limits. It was a Ben Kenobi moment, only better done.
The bit with Lancelot later on, where she was assigned to take out the satellite despite her fear of heights was similarly unsurprising and neccesary. First, they'd foreshadowed it by showing she was scared of heights, that way her actions had personal drama, but more to the point she had to do that part of the mission because the invitation into the shelter was in Arthur's name and a girl would have raised eyebrows even if security didn't have pictures to put with the names.
Whitney Savage sounds like a roller derby champion
yet again more made up sexism controversy from adam. i think he needs to rewatch the end of kingsman, the female character wasn't hesitant or bumbling in the slightest in the third act. she only hesitates to jump out of the plane in the middle, and eggs freaks out later in that scene way more than she ever does, it makes their character more relatable
shes ever so slightly (and understandably) out of breath in the scene where the balloon pops as shes about to fire and has to aim while falling. but adam is trying to make out like she turns into a 20's house wife burning the roast dinner or something.
is this how its going to be now. one generation had their elders being inadvertently racists/sexist/prejudice, now we're going to have people trying to be a social justice warrior because they don't remember things how they actually happen?!
do't even get me started on him not realising all the james bond movies he loves so much had just as "bad" endings where the hero has sex with random women. norm brings up the point and adam just shakes his head. "you're going to take a woman whos already imprisons and have anal sex with her. This is the worst joke i've ever heard".
thats because that wasnt the joke, the joke was the cheeky lad thinks hes going to get a kiss from a princess and turns out, ooo, this princess isn't such a delicate little flower and is the one who shocks eggs by bring up anal sex. subverting your expectations of what a "princess" would say. the characters shock is the joke. Adam was too busy making him self offended to get it.